A Devotion to Bend the Great Arch of History
Kevin Rudd on social inequalities, nationalism and the role of media in democracies.
On November 14, we welcomed the Honorable Kevin Rudd, Former Prime Minister of Australia and President of the Asia Society Policy Institute, to talk with us about China. Behind the scenes, we had the opportunity to find out a bit more about Kevin's engagements and his world view.
Anna Zwald: Kevin, you are a member of the Australian Labor Party and you have mentioned in the past that a major thing that has drawn you to politics was to tackle inequalities and to assure more equal chances for people independent of one’s social background. As Prime Minister you set into motion major reforms contributing to achieve this goal. With your current position your work environment has changed. Do you still find the time to address the issue and if so, how do you do it?
Kevin Rudd: Domestically, I established the National Apology Foundation for Indigenous Australians to work on reconciliation and to deliver justice to Indigenous Australians. Internationally, I seek to induce change as Chair of Sanitation and Water for All. The UNICEF-supported organisation gives effect to the sustainable development goal number six, agreed to at the UN Sustainable Development Summit 2015. It involves working in multiple countries around the world to try and ensure that we have universal provision of clean drinking water and sanitation services. That is critical for social justice for women, for girls and for the poorest communities around the world in terms of reducing communicable diseases.
You are a strong advocate of multilateralism and diplomacy; approaches very much seen as unfavorable and counterproductive by many recently elected governments in Western countries. What do you personally feel is the biggest risk of their unilateral and protectionist policies?
Well, the problem of nationalism is that it has been proven in history to produce adverse results, not just for the individual countries but for the entire international community. I mean, we tried a whole bunch of national solutions: that did not work in 1914 nor in 1939. We then decided we should try having an effective multilateral system. Guess what: The world has discovered that it is not perfect and that it only produces partial results but against other results produced by rampant nationalism, rampant mercantilism and rampant protectionism, the results have not been bad. So, applying the commonsense test of what produces the best results is important. Multilateral solutions have a history of demonstrating better outcomes. Not perfect, but nothing in politics is ever perfect.
Alongside your many current commitments you also work on a doctoral degree. How do you manage to accommodate all of these things?
Well, it depends on your own nature. My biggest interest in life is how do you actually move the dial in bending the great arch of history towards justice. For me that has always been a more fundamental and motivational factor than earning lots of money. So, if that is who you are as a person then you will very likely find your soul thrown at that sort of work around the world. Whenever I am asked to contribute, I seek to contribute and if I would not be doing that, I would probably not be a fulfilled human being. Other people get their fulfilment by having a nice house on the Côte D’Azur, I do not.
As a politician the media is one channel, and actually a quite important one, to make your message being heard. But at the same time, we all know how often media outlets twist things and lack objectivity or fact-checking. In your eyes, how should a democracy best counteract the resulting distortion?
Well, there are three conditions for a functioning democracy:
- A system of laws which entrenches and preserves the principle of equal rights for all human beings and therefore an equal vote in the political process.
- Mechanisms which provide a fair platform for multiplicity to be used and reflected.
- An informed citizenry who can intelligently participate in the democratic process.
Of course, all of these three points are deeply interrelated. The most important thing is to ensure that the laws of the country provide for a competitive space for multiple media platforms, both traditional and non-traditional. This media space should be equipped with independent authorities in charge of fact checking to establish the objective basis for an otherwise particular claim. When non-factual statements have been made there must be an appropriate mechanism of redress, that is for the producer to publicly admit his wrongdoing and restate the shared content according to facts.
In much of the Anglo-Saxon media we have a problem at hand caused by the monopoly power or semi monopoly power of major news organizations like News Corp run by Rupert Murdoch. He uses and abuses his media power for commercial advantage and to propagate a series of right-wing ideological views. The laws of various countries in preserving media diversity should make sure he is just one among a number of voices and not the dominant voice as he is in many countries around the world.
Having moved from Australia to New York. What are the main differences with regard to the perception of the Asian continent given in the two countries?
Very simple. As Australia does not see itself as a great power, even though it is a major power in Asia and a middle power globally, we approach our neighbors in Asia from the cultural and political assumption that these countries are no better or no worse than we are. This gives us a greater sense of national humility in contact with other countries. For example, we live next door to the country with the largest Muslim population in the world: Indonesia. The proximity to Asia led us to have a much better sense of the culture and history of these countries, rather than assuming that we are somehow superior to them.
Being a super power, the requirement for the US to understand their neighbours or any other country has always been less. Additionally, because they represented the dominant culture in the world since the Second World War and certainly since the end of the Cold War, this can create a sense of cultural superiority. So, if you want to understand the differences, they are found along these lines.
The Honorable Kevin Rudd served as Australia’s 26th Prime Minister and as Foreign Minister. In 2015, Mr. Rudd joined the Asia Society Policy Institute in New York as its inaugural President. He is Chair of the Board of the International Peace Institute, and Chair of Sanitation and Water for All. He is a Distinguished Fellow at Chatham House, a Distinguished Statesman with the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a Distinguished Fellow at the Paulson Institute. He serves on the International Advisory Board of the Schwarzman Scholars program at Tsinghua University, and is an Honorary Professor at Peking University.
Kevin Rudd joined us on November 14, 2018, to talk about China and the U.S.-China trade conflict. Read our recap of the event here: «Too early to tell» and find the video of the event here.
Anna Zwald is Project Manager at Asia Society Switzerland.