ON THIS EPISODE

China's patent applications have surpassed every other country for over a decade and the speed with which technology out of China impresses the world has picked up in the last few years. Its factories churn out cutting-edge electric vehicles packed with futuristic features – so advanced that European carmakers are now partnering with Chinese firms to gain access to their technology. A complete reversal of the old playbook. In renewable energy and green tech, China has leapfrogged to become the world leader in both production and innovation.

Then came the DeepSeek moment: an AI breakthrough from a little-known Chinese company, proving that China can build models on par with America's best – at a fraction of the cost. And all this despite restrictions on high-tech imports from the West.

Time and again, China’s innovations catch businesses, governments, and analysts in Europe and the U.S. off guard. With massive investments in quantum computing, biotech, and nuclear technology, what's next?

Can China lead the world in technology by leveraging its talent, capital, scale, and rapid adoption? Can a state-driven model fuel true innovation through policies and subsidies in China – or the West, for that matter? How effective can export controls be? And what are the defining factors for innovations to become part of our daily lives?

This episode of the podcast features a recording of an Oxford Debate, held live in Zurich, on April 7, 2025. Four experts take sides in favor of and opposed to the debate motion: "Innovation Made in China Will Change the World."

Presenting well thought-out, but time-constrained arguments are:

• James Kynge, a writer on Chinese technology, the economy and geopolitics. His forthcoming audiobook, Global Tech Wars: China's Race to Dominate, is due to be published by Pushkin in April. He spent 28 years at the Financial Times reporting on China.
• John Lee, the 2025 TOY Senior Fellow at Asia Society Switzerland and a Fellow at Asia Society Policy Institute's Center for China Analysis. He is the Director of East West Futures, a consultancy specializing in China's high-tech industries, political economy, military capabilities, and international diplomacy.
• Antonia Hmaidi, a Senior Analyst at the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS) in Berlin. She works on the geopolitics of technology, China's pursuit of tech self-reliance (especially in areas like semiconductors, operating systems and internet infrastructure), China's cybersecurity and hacking campaigns.
• Yuka Kobayashi, a British Academy Global Innovation Fellow in DGAP's Center for Geopolitics, Geoeconomics, and Technology. She is on leave from SOAS, University of London where she is senior lecturer (associate professor) of China and international politics.

Learn more about the speakers on our website and watch the full debate on the Asia Society YouTube channel here.

Our Oxford Debate series offers insights into complex issues, presented in short and clear arguments. Find all the debates here.

STATE OF ASIA podcast

Season 8, episode 10 – published April 8, 2025

Host/Producer: Remko Tanis, Managing Editor, Asia Society Switzerland

Find previous and future episodes on our website here, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or search for 'State of Asia' in any other podcast app.