Asia Society India Centre spoke with Ali Aftab Saeed, Asia 21 Next Generation Fellow Class of 2014, celebrated journalist, satirist, and musician from Pakistan. Ali’s work is driven by a deep commitment to social change through art, and he has consistently experimented across mediums to tell impactful stories. 

In this interview, Ali takes us through his journey as a musician, his thoughts on leadership and collaboration, and his experience as an Asia 21 Fellow.

Ali, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and introduce us to your work?

I'm Ali Aftab Saeed. I do a lot of things. I'm not really proud of the fact that I do a lot of things because I think one should do less things and be good at what he does. I know a little bit about too many things and I'm not good at anything in particular, but I am a journalist. 

Next year will be my 20th year in journalism. I'm also a musician. I'm a satirist. I'm a documentary filmmaker. I have done a lot of work for the development sector. I run a coffee shop and also I make animated movies (my production house does). It is very probable that I will remember some things that I have left out, in the middle of this conversation. 
 
What motivates your work in music and across all these different areas that you mentioned? What difference do you hope to make?

I've always aimed to bring about social change through art. Music is something that I wanted to do when I was very young. Ever since I remember, I wanted to be a musician, but my circumstances didn't allow me to learn music when I was young; to practice music when I was young and all that. So I got to it very late. So I started earning, then I started investing in music without learning and I started making music. Music is something that I love so much. Music is something that drives me.

For the rest of the things: I got into journalism accidentally. There was a job opening at a TV channel and I went for the interview without any degree, any knowledge of what was required, anything. The panel that was interviewing me gave me the job just because they thought I'm an interesting character. And in that interview, they asked me twice - ‘you want to become a musician, why are you joining this news channel?’ And I said: if it's a TV channel, then they will need music somewhere.

So that's how I got into journalism. And then after three, four years, I started enjoying it. And that's when I made an album, which was a very ordinary album - it had love songs and breakup songs and all that. But it took me so many years to produce that album because I didn't have money. So the first song and the last song was so different. I thought they can't be compiled into one album because the studios evolved. I, as a musician, evolved. It took so many years. By then, I had developed this liking for journalism as well. And that's where I thought that I could mix the two. So that's when I started the band Beygairat Brigade. We did a song. It was a political satire. It got popular overnight. And then everybody started knowing who I was and all that.

Once I got into that, because I started watching movies and I was into journalism, I started experimenting a little with cameras and angles and edits. I started making documentaries. I started making proof of performance videos.

And eventually it became my bread and butter. I did that TV job for 10 years. Then I left and started my own production house. So now everything that I have told you that I do, I run my kitchen through those things.

What, according to you, makes a good leader?

I think the kind of work we do, a single person cannot do it. You need a team for it. And in fact, most of the things that you do in life require a team. And one should know how to build a team to get things done.

Most people build teams and work their entire life. But I believe that there should be people who were a part of your team and then went on and became bigger than you. That means that you provided them with the confidence that they could surpass you.

I think that's what makes you a good leader. If you haven't produced anyone bigger than you – again, there could be circumstances. You cannot judge anyone. But I think that it raises eyebrows. What makes a leader is that the leader should be able to produce people bigger than him.

Considering the intricacies of South Asian culture and experience, there's a gap in the available wisdom on leadership and problem solving. As a leader, it can be a challenge to adopt conventional ideas to work through situations in need of culturally specific solutions. As a leader, what has your experience been while addressing such complications?
 
My experience has been very interesting. You know, when we have an issue at hand, we sometimes make blunders and then we correct it however we think that it will work. But it's very difficult when you're working with a person or an organization who is West-based. They might say, ‘Okay, you have this problem, someone did this in Ireland in 1982 and it worked. So it is bound to work in your region as well.’ 

It is very difficult for us to make them understand that what worked in Ireland will not work here. But again, you see, sometimes you're able to convince them, sometimes you don't. You know this won't work, but you have to do it. And I think the strategy is that you keep on implementing new things, learning from them, changing them till you find something that you feel is kind of working. You can't be bogged down because something you believed in didn't work. One shouldn't be too attached to his ideas. Okay, you thought of it, it seems novel, but there is a big probability that it won't work. And that’s fine. And you should be able to think of a new idea and implement it.

And also, keep your ears open. If somebody is telling you something, listen to them. How I work is, whenever I'm doing something, in the back of my mind, there's always this thought that: it might not work. And if it doesn't, then I'll make another strategy and then another strategy. And eventually it will work, hopefully. And even if it doesn't, you just have to keep on going.

Given that mentorship is a significant part of the Asia 21 fellowship, how do you think it's contributed to your development as a leader? And how do you feel about mentoring aspiring younger leaders?

Especially in our part of the world, the education system we have now is very new. It used to be  one-on-one, one teacher and one student. So I think firstly mentorship is very important. As far as my relationship goes with Asia 21, it gave me a lot of things. But one thing that I would really want to mention and highlight is that when you are doing things, especially a person like me who has come from kind of a humble background, and you’re hustling, doing so many things, you don’t know that what you’re doing is something substantial.

I didn't know that this was a big deal or something, or had any impact for that matter. When Asia Society chose me, and I got to know that so-and-so people nominated me, and then they introduced me to people who were doing so many great things across the world and told me ‘you’re one of them.’ That is where I got the confidence that I have ‘arrived’ or something. Suddenly, my whole thinking changed after that. I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but I started taking myself a little seriously after that.

Asia 21 is a great initiative. And I really hope that they keep on picking people from humble backgrounds, because they are the kind of people who really require someone to tell them, 'what you're doing means a lot, is great, you're doing a great job, continue doing this.’ I'm really indebted.
 
Are you involved in mentoring other Asia 21 leaders who have come after you too?

I have not been able to mentor. Unfortunately, I didn't know how to. I would really love to. But I did a couple of projects. I did one song and video with Aarti Shrivastava (Asia 21 Class of 2014), about India-Pakistan friendship. Whenever Asia Society asks me to do something, I just do it.

Who are some Asia 21 fellows from your cohort and otherwise, whose leadership and work consistently inspires you?  
 
Oh, there are so many. Mehmal Sarfraz (Class of 2013), Yasser Latif Hamdani (Class of 2013), Madiha Gul (Class of 2016).

The best part is that when you don't know a person and you meet him or her at Asia21, and then find out what they do and realize they're giants. It's amazing. Inarguably, if I think of five best things that have happened to me in my life, Asia Society would be one of them.